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Crusader Job Assessment


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#1
Insomnia

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Below is an overview of all Crusader skills and their function. This will be posted here for reference until the main site is updated.
 
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#2
whatgoat

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Suggestion on Spear Quicken and Holy Cross

These are pretty niche skills for crusader that aren't often picked up - Renewal made the following changes which I think might be useful to take some ideas from for people looking to play a more offensive Sader build:

Holy Cross: The damage is doubled with a two-handed Spear.
This is a significant damage increase, so i wouldn't go as far as doubling the damage, but a minor increase (50~100% more damage?) would be a nice justification for not using a shield.

Spear Quicken: Adds Crit+30, and Flee +20, usable with 1handed spears
The crit is a bit much, but as Spear saders generally use more AGI than any other sader build i think the Flee bonus could be added, and perhaps being usable with 1 handed spears would be good as well. Lets Holy cross AGI saders be a viable DPS option against tougher undead enemies.

I like the changes to Faith and the removal of Demon Bane / Protection.


Not sure about the Devotion change, I dont remember it ever working that way, and how does that change function when taking lethal damage? Does the crusader still die instead of the devoted target?


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#3
mamotromico

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Holy Cross is already more attractive due to 1H Quicken Imo, and it would be weird if the Sader "quicken" would be naturally better than Knight "quicken".
 


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#4
Whitehart

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Alright, this is a class near and dear to my heart, so here come some more Unsolicited Suggestions ®

 

Faith -LOVE IT. This was always a point sink.

Holy Cross - With the addition of 1HQ to swordies, it will have to be seen how this skill delay has been effected. Given the high SP cost and the relatively useless status (who cares if I get hit I have two shields!), I think it could use some buffing. Nothing crazy, but enough to keep it competitive with Pierce (600% max at 7SP)

Grand Cross - The only concern I have is the splash damage not affecting creatures sharing the same square.

Providence - Wait...holy and demon? So one element and one race? What? Either way, if undead is included it makes for quite a buff.

Shield Charge - This is going to be an odd one, and will depend on how other modifier affect it. If this accepts weapon elements, then it may well be the foil to Pierce mentioned above. Except that a 9 cell knockback would leave it (generally) un-spammable. Perhaps add the shield weight/refinement consideration from the ever spammable boomerang?

Defender - Perhaps reduce the walking speed penalty according to level?

Spear Quicken - It would make sense to the class to allow this to affect 1 hand spears as well. Running autoguard on a spear sader would give an increased survivability in the absence of heavy hitting damage abilities.

 

That is all.


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#5
caupls

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yea i think we should change spear quicken to its renewal version which makes it use-able with 1 hand spear and adds 30 crt and 20 flee, to make spear crusader an appealing alternative


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#6
Insomnia

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I think as long as it's inline with the knight equivalent, that's okay for the quicken skills.

 

The 30% ASPD boost for two-hand quicken is a trade off for losing your shield. However, knights can use swordsman's one-hand quick to be able to wield a shield, but for less ASPD bonus: 13% ASPD.

 

The same thing should apply to spear quicken in that you gain 30% ASPD boost if you're using a two-handed spear, because you're losing your shield, but only 13% if you're using a one-hand spear and keeping your shield.


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#7
whatgoat

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This makes sense actually ^.
In renewal, everyone on any class gets an aspd penalty just for wearing a shield, so since we don't have that, a change is probably needed.


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#8
Whitehart

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The 30%/13% approach is definitely adequate IMO.


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#9
mamotromico

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The reason Flee was added on the Quicken skills on renewal is because the flee formula is different on renewal. There it is much harder to keep 95% flee in general. No need for the flee buff here since it uses the classic formula (copied from knight thread)

I don't think it makes sense to make the Spear quicken to have a 1handed option. If that's the case then crusader would have 3 "Quickanable" weapons, and Knights only two.
If you're gonna make a "one handed spear quicken", move it to the Swordsman class

EDIT: Or merge the 1h/2h sword quicken too, on the knight. No sense to break the simmetry in this case.


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#10
mamotromico

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I think the problem is bigger than this tho. One annoying feature of Axes and Spears is that they have no clear distinction between 2h and 1h. So for instance, Knights tend to use pike[4] always due to allowing them to keep the shield while using spear skills. Crusaders have the incentive to actually use the 2handed spears due to spear quicken.

I think if you make Spear Quicken applicable to 1h spears you have to make 2handed ones more desirable in genera, which I believe renewal kind of does with the new weapons being so strong.
Else, things like Poleaxe[1] will be BiS with no contest for all kind of spears builds imo


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#11
Whitehart

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Recently, I've spent some time with my Crusader, and so far I have some thoughts. The quest for job change was fairly easy and quick, although I will say the dialogue is a bit...Zealous.

 

With that out of the way, I'll move on to the skills. I haven't tested a spear build yet, as I'm disinterested in the and therefore wouldn't be of much insight.

 

As far as GC goes, two major changes improve the quality of life for this build. The alleviation of investment required for GC means it's easy to roll right into the build, rather than flounder for two dozen job levels--this feels amazing, especially given the dread that goes along with the 60-70 slump. Meanwhile, the change to the splash mechanic is amazing. So nice to be able to hit and kill everything in the animation.

 

On the other hand, I've done a little bit of messing around with a shield build, and I can say that Shield Charge is an interesting change that makes the build {more) viable for solo play. It's highly spammable, hits like a truck, stuns, and with moderate INT leads to pretty long uptimes.  I will note, however, that the knockback and stun mechanics play hell with the game's pathing and tractions. It's easy to cause mobs to drop aggro entirely, as a matter of fact. Fun, though. The additional VIT defense from the new swordsman skill adds even more viability to the build. Eventually, I'd like to do some more testing with the shield charge build--add some elemental weapons, see how the impact of Iron Defense and Angelus impacts the pass-through damage from devotion.

 

In all, the changes are a net improvement to the quality of life of the class. I imagine that spear builds may still find the glass boring, though.


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#12
whatgoat

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The reason Flee was added on the Quicken skills on renewal is because the flee formula is different on renewal. There it is much harder to keep 95% flee in general. No need for the flee buff here since it uses the classic formula (copied from knight thread)

I don't think it makes sense to make the Spear quicken to have a 1handed option. If that's the case then crusader would have 3 "Quickanable" weapons, and Knights only two.
If you're gonna make a "one handed spear quicken", move it to the Swordsman class

EDIT: Or merge the 1h/2h sword quicken too, on the knight. No sense to break the simmetry in this case.

Swordsman 1HQ only works for one handed swords.


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#13
Achelexus

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I'd keep the extra crit from spear quicken. Simple ASPD buffs are asinine and everywhere, but a buff that would promove an alternative build (crit crusader, which isn't common, at least compared to crit knight), is more interesting, imo.

 

Same for Providence, a generic "+X% damage to arbitrary race/element of your choice" isn't super interesting, I would rather have more unique effects take place when the buff is up (for example, HC/GC will have 3x the chance to blind opponents, etc).

 

The reason Flee was added on the Quicken skills on renewal is because the flee formula is different on renewal. There it is much harder to keep 95% flee in general. No need for the flee buff here since it uses the classic formula (copied from knight thread)

 

AFAIK the only difference is that LUK also increases hit rate/dodge. And since very few classes pick LUK, whereas monsters always have it, you need more AGI investment for the 95% flee rate.


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